Banned from Heritage Park

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Banned from Heritage Park

Submitted by Rick on Sun, 02/26/2006 - 1:00pm.

A fellow Olympian had an interesting incounter with one WSP officer earlier this month. It seems the WSP can make up stuff pretty much whenever they want. From Ben's website:

On Saturday, February 11, 2006 at approximately 5:20 p.m., my wife and I were walking along the road in Heritage Park underneath the state capitol building, heading to the foot path that leads up to the capitol. A state patrol car drove up from behind and pulled beside us with the pasenger window down. The officer inside said that he would prefer it if we walk on the gravel trail beside the lake because they use that road.

A simple question

A bit amazed, I asked if that was a requirement, if there was a law or rule behind that (his "I would prefer" language made us doubt that this was a legal requirement). He replied that there is a sign "back there" and reiterated that "they" use the road. I asked him again if that was really a requirement, if there was a law or rule to that effect, and Lisa asked this as well. The officer responded, "I guess a warning's just not good enough for you," and got out of the car rather abruptly. As he walked behind the car toward us, I said that I jog this road all the time and have never heard this before. He asked if I had ID on me and I said yes. He demanded that I show him my ID. I felt I wasn't required by law to show him my ID but he was rather agitated and this situation already seemed way out of hand, so I did not question him and complied, providing him my Washington State ID.

Read the whole thing. Anyone got any 411 on an officer R.J. Woods? Seems like he's got an anger control problem.

Rick's blog
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Bizarre.

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Sun, 02/26/2006 - 3:24pm.

Bizarre.

http://lbloom.net/wsp05.html

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sun, 02/26/2006 - 10:39pm.

http://lbloom.net/wsp05.html

Name/Job Title/Salary(monthly or hourly)

WOODS, REGINALD J/TROOPER/4468

[Per month I would assume]

He was registered to vote in Lacey in October, 2004. He lives in the Tanglewilde area. If you need someone to serve him with legal process, I'm inexpensive...

That's one of the most ridicu

Submitted by TheMadHousewife on Mon, 02/27/2006 - 12:14pm.

That's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard! I see people on that road all the time. I think I'll start walking on that road now! Ha.

The real crime here, of cours

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Mon, 02/27/2006 - 7:12pm.

The real crime here, of course, is that the person did not immediately bow and capitulate to the officer's whim. When trouble starts, it is usually because someone questioned the officer's right to pull stupid requirements out of his a**. This is more of a problem for those lower on the social scale. The officers make up laws for us all the time.

Do consider suing. To start,

Submitted by Sylvester P. Smythe on Mon, 02/27/2006 - 10:44pm.

Do consider suing. To start, contact the ACLU. They may be interested in the lack of clear appeals process. The fact that the court was left off the ticket may have invalidated it. Something to discuss with an attorney. Be aware there are time limits on both sides. If you are told you have passed a time limit, remember to bring up the lack of clear appeals process and information left off the ticket.

But at the same time, complain farther up the ladder. The Governor's office is not so far away and they have staffers you can meet with.

I doubt you're going to see s

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Mon, 02/27/2006 - 10:58pm.

I doubt you're going to see staff spared for a $101 ticket and, if you did manage to get a moment with a staffer, they'll say Sure, I'll be right on it with a wink and a nod.

It's true, that you're unlike

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 12:54am.

It's true, that you're unlikely to get satisfaction from the WSP on this by going through the Governor's office. Depending on whom you know, of course. If you're someone who rubs shoulders with her already, mention it. You might try going to the man's supervisor, who is probably still Michael Dahl - the man who attacked David Fawver in Sylvester Park. He's not a very nice guy, though. And I have it on personal experience that if he suggests something will be stolen from you, you should count on losing it.

That sounds like story.

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 8:47am.

That sounds like an interesting story.

So did Officer Dahl steal fro

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 9:15am.

So did Officer Dahl steal from you? I'm confused.

OK, here's a thumbnail. I

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 12:04pm.

OK, here's a thumbnail.

I took out a permit for the gazebo so that I could place a "boom box" there during an antiwar rally at the Capitol Building. There had been some violence there during the antiwar rally prior, so we thought that having live event coverage audible from Sylvester Park would remove people from the scene but allow them to still hear the speeches. Free Radio Olympia 98.5FM was covering the event, and I was still doing a lot of radio news with them. During the permit interview with Sgt Dahl, he mentioned that he thought the radio would be stolen from the gazebo "in no time." No problem, I said - we'll string it up to the rafters and no one with any sense will F* with it. No can do, says Sgt Dahl. Don't use ropes.

So, rather than suspending the radio I glued it to a small trashcan I owned, and set the whole contraption down on the floor of the gazebo. It was running off of batteries. This was set up around 8 or 9am. A friend and I walked to Media Island, just on the other side of the Olympia library downtown. 5 minutes tops, find the door locked, walk back - 10 minutes in all perhaps. The radio is gone, ripped from the trashcan. No one across the street at StarvingForBucks saw anything (or would say). A strange guy sitting on the bench closest to the gazebo, a man who looked sidelong at me several times during the setup, was absent and no where to be found. He appeared upper middle class, professional even in dress and manner. His presence was noted, but not significantly suspicious until he and the radio were the only two missing elements upon our return. Sgt Dahl predicted it - and I believed that in the fullness of the day, my $3 yardsale radio and $6 of batteries would get stolen - perhaps as the afternoon wore on. What I had not expected was that someone would be setting up and waiting to steal it at 9AM on a Saturday...

You can call me paranoid (and I'll argue against it) but it just smelled too... political to ignore Sgt Dahl's warning. He's said to me that I stand against everything he stands for. I believe he's right about that...

I'm actually kind of curious

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 2:09pm.

I'm actually kind of curious to see what a boombox glued to a trashcan would look like.

The reason I would say you might be overly paranoid is that I have a difficult time trying to imagine someone would risk a fairly good paying job with excellent job security for a $3 radio.

You said it smelled too "political" to ignore his warning. Again, I'm getting a little bit lost here so I'll have to ask point blank: Are you suggesting this officer either stole your radio or had involvement?

I am suggesting that this off

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Thu, 03/02/2006 - 12:37pm.

I am suggesting that this officer (Dahl) likely asked someone (I know not whom) to steal my radio from the Gazebo and dispose of it, not to possess the $3 radio but to stop that radio from supporting an antiwar march. He predicted it, then it happened, and then he told me (later) that he considered me to be his political enemy (in a conversation on the street.) You do the math.

I saw no evidence at that early hour of any other people other than the man I described, whom I have not seen since in uniform - so I cannot say who he was. He was not the sort I would expect to do such a thing. I had never seen him downtown before, or since.

Keep in mind that we're talking about 8 or 9 am, not the middle of the afternoon. I didn't file a police report, because I did not give that much of a Sh*t about it, really. I've had more significant things stolen from me by local LE, from my house. I don't want to find out how badly they can F* with me if I make the consequences stick for smalltime sh*t which would not get them fired. I'll wait for them to commit a felony to go down that road... I don't think that stealing such a thing would lose a trooper his job, frankly...

Law suits against Trooper Woods HAVE been won

Submitted by jlw on Sun, 07/20/2008 - 5:48pm.

Check this out.

Thanks for that update.

Submitted by Rick on Sun, 07/20/2008 - 5:57pm.

Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt

I wouldn't say a "settlement" is winning.

Submitted by JT on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 7:37pm.

It's pretty common for cases to be settled out of the courtroom as a cost savings. If those that file frivolous lawsuits are willing to settle for less than the cost of trying the case, it is dealt with that way. It makes good business sense, but likely isn't much fun for those named in the suit, most would like it to go to trial, and certainly settling isn't "winning". But this isn't the first time JLW has twisted the facts in his/her,,,, :-) ,,,,,, articles.

Maybe a better title for this post would have been "the Trooper Woods lawsuit has been settled".

"Hydrocarbons are not biology reworked by geology but rather geology reworked by biology." – Thomas Gold

itchyhitch.blogspot.com

Ummmm....

Submitted by jlw on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 10:20pm.

I didn't actually write that article. But I can say this: if someone is arrested under ridiculous circumstances (and being detained for not carrying a drivers license when you are a pedestrian is pretty ridiculous), winning a settlement is a lot more gratifying than merely having the charges dropped, which of course they were. Let's hope cases like this make law enforcement officers think twice before they exceed their authority.

Oops...

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 07/22/2008 - 9:38am.

Many lawsuits that reasonable people would not consider "frivolous" are settled. And just because a suit is settled does not mean it was frivolous to begin with or that the person being sued is innocent. To conclude otherwise requires considerably more information.

I highly doubt the Trooper wa

Submitted by white feather on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 6:06pm.

I highly doubt the Trooper was involved in the theft. Knowing the level of homeless and criminal element in the downtown/Sylvester park area, there are many more suspects I would consider before the Trooper.

If I read this post correctly, the Trooper caught this guy in violation of the law. When he asked the guy to move outside the area he was in violation of he decided to play 20 questions with the Trooper. So the Trooper decided to write him a ticket. Why is anyone upset about this? The guy could have been nice, and did as he was asked, several times I believe. But because the Trooper decided the window of opportunity for the "break" closed after a period of time, people here and the law breaker are upset at the Trooper? I would tell the law breaker to learn from this.

I walk on the road all the time, but I do so at my own peril. And if I was asked, or directed to move from the road by a Trooper, or Officer, I wouldn't debate that with them. If they are wrong, there is a time and place to complain, or deal with it, but at the time they are giving direction isn't the time.

I have no love for Troopers. I believe many are arrogant a**holes, so don't mistake my position on this. I would include my opinion of Trooper Dahl as one of the a**holes. And there are nice, professional Troopers too, i.e. Trooper Rosser. But with that said, don't argue with "the man". Be a good witness if he gets out of line, and do as he/she tells you.

No doubt that would be the re

Submitted by Rick on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 8:39pm.

No doubt that would be the reaction of many of us. The point is that that the trooper's job is to deal with the public. Why couldn't the trooper have said essentially what you've said: "Hey, I'm just askin' if you would move off the road -- you don't have to make a federal case out of it." I would have expected this much from anyone who has to be in daily contact with the public. But what happened is that the trooper got pissed off, and let his anger control his actions. Hmmmmmm. Do I want people who can't control their anger walking around my town with a big gun? Not really. If this is indicative of officer Woods' ablility to conduct himself in a non-threatening situation, how's he gonna do when there really is a threat? I don't like it.

Having worked in a few jobs i

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Tue, 02/28/2006 - 9:31pm.

Having worked in a few jobs in positions where there was some authority (definately not as high as a police officer, though) where you constantly have to deal with the public (especially when "the public" isn't exactly the best society had to offer), I would say most people in that position are short on patience.

I don't mean short on physical patience (though if anyone ever lost any physical patience in the work environments you and I are used to they would probably be fired and/or headed to jail), but just in discussion with people.

You get tired of having to give the same requests, hear the same answers (and I'm sure as a police officer you get a lot of wanna-be lawyers), and generally have to put up with a lot of crap, you might not be Mr. Happy Face from time to time.

I feel for people (receptionists, law enforcement, food industry, etc.) who have to interact with the public. It's not a pleasant experience.

Caught what guy in violation

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Thu, 03/02/2006 - 12:43pm.

Caught what guy in violation of what law? There were two people walking together on that road, one ticket written for one of the two people. What part of this does NOT look like selective enforcement to you? And what part of this looks like a law violation to you, if so many other people EVERY DAY do exactly the same thing with no ticket? If you get on the cattle car when the nice officer tells you to, you have no one to cry to but your shower buddy.

We're upset about it because badges are NOT given out to people so that they can win arguments about their "preferences." We give those to people to protect our property and our lives, not their egos.

Failed to obey the signs that

Submitted by white feather on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 12:09pm.

Failed to obey the signs that prohibit the use of the roadway, that was the law violated per the ticket. Others don't get tickets, cuz the cops aren't there to see it or those people have more than a few brain cells to rub together and move off the road when asked by the nice officer.

People speed up Harrison Ave everyday, just because a lot of people do it, doesn't mean its legal,,,,,,didn't you profess to "know the law" in an earlier thread??? Time to hit the books Drew.

I would agree both should have gotten a ticket, if one was going to get a ticket. As far as selective enforcement, that happens everyday. I happened to me not long ago. I didn't get a speeding ticket and deserved one. But I'm fairly confident the same cop wrote a speeding ticket to others that day, is that fair?? Dunno, but I'm glad I didn't get one. And I'm guessing, given your rep and attitude about police here, you won't/don't get many breaks......

Wow. And that's OK with you?

Submitted by Rick on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 12:18pm.

Wow. And that's OK with you?

Unfortunately, selective enfo

Submitted by The Fire Inside on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 12:51pm.

Unfortunately, selective enforcement is going to be part of the law enforcement system.

This is both good and bad. It gives the officer the ability to use their best (or worst, depending on how you want to view it) judgement in making the decision of whether or not to ticket/arrest someone. If you've ever been cut a break, you were the recipient of selective enforcement (which went to your benefit).

The bad part is that someone doing an activity which might otherwise be trivial (jaywalking) could be on the negative end.

If you're right and there is

Submitted by DrewHendricks on Fri, 03/10/2006 - 11:34am.

If you're right and there is a law which controls the roadway, why can't the cop just say so in the conversation when it is requested, instead of being a petty tyrant? I've heard WSP officers tell me the Sylvester Park is closed "at dusk" while I'm standing under a sign which says it is closed at 8PM. In February, 8PM is two hours after dusk. Sometimes police pull laws out of their ass. This guy just asked what the law actually was - and he got a ticket for asking, didn't he? That's why the others didn't get tickets.

As for hitting the books, you're arguing the affirmative case. You have yet to present any evidence. You've asserted a law you could not cite. So hit your own books, chum.

By the way, the signs in Sylvester Park were changed - I got photos before the change and afterward.

hmmmmmmm, maybe not, but I un

Submitted by white feather on Fri, 03/03/2006 - 12:38pm.

hmmmmmmm, maybe not, but I understand it. Cops are human too.

Seems fitting

Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Mon, 07/21/2008 - 7:55pm.

cops are.....

Submitted by hazzardus waste on Tue, 07/22/2008 - 9:29am.

supsosed to to act to a higher standard more profecional than us. Thats why they get the big bucks. Many many times I have had cops pull laws out of their asses as Drew says. Face it we are living in a mininum custody prison. Toe the line and act nice or you will find yourselves in the camps. eat the rich the poor are skinny

Oh I forgot....

Submitted by hazzardus waste on Tue, 07/22/2008 - 9:54am.

A couple of years ago about I was in Sylvester Park at a time when food not bombs was feeding. What was going on at the time was the state cops were really working hard to tow a persons car calling the city cops to get it maybe city tickets? There were a lot of cops there. One cop came up to a group of us saying like how are you all or something like that. My memories are rather dim on the exact wording but the story line is correct. At the time as they were towing this persons car I really wasn't feeling like talking to them I said something like f...k you I don't want to talk to you get away from me. And the officer went away. Then we are just hanging out and my dog Sparticus (RIP) kinda did a paw type jump thing at the ground one time without even damaging the ground at all. Sparticus as all who knew him is a small dog. Right then the cop said hey whats your dog doing digging at the ground. and he gave me a tresspass order kicking me out of the park for 90 days. Without any charge or ticket at all. And me pointing out that the ground was undisturbed. Well After I called the state police to try to get it un done the tresspass order basicly they told me not no but hell no. Thats uncostitutional ask Drew maybe he could explain the finer points. Next week I went back for food not bombs and they got me for tresspass and charged me and kicked me out of the park for a year. I went to court finaly and got the charges dropped the day of trial and even then I was still kicked out of the park for a year. Even though all charges were dropped. eat the rich the poor are skinny

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