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Submitted by Rick on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 6:48am.
At OlyBlog, we've spent a lot of time and energy showing that an online community that honors respectful communication can exist, in stark contrast to the comments over at the Olympian website. It was nice to see that thought echoed in a piece on Gawker this morning (thanks Rob!): Comments are thought to be an added value to a newspaper's site—providing another reason to read. You come for the article, and stay for the interesting discussion. The only problem is, there is no interesting discussion. Almost never. Not even from the mythical supersmart New York Times readers. The reason that there is no interesting discussion on Newspaper's websites is that there is no sense of community or accountability there. In fact, there is a glaring conflict of interest present: newspapers, as profit-seeking enterprises, want to drive up traffic to their site as much as possible. Just like looking at the aftermath of an automobile accident as you drive by, watching the uncontrolled bickering and sniping that occurs in those comment threads is difficult for many to resist. Hence, with this gory attraction to keep eyeballs glued to their sites, papers have little incentive to clean up their act and create a safe, welcoming space for civic discussion. Will they learn a new way before they all go extinct?
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more importantly, will OlyBlog learn a new way?
Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 9:36am.Some already did
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 9:49am.More power to them.
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:06am.Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt
why don't you
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:19am.Thanks.
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:20am.I've got enough on my hands over here.
Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt
I think this is a thread about comments in newspapers
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:25am.I like that P.S. too
Submitted by JulieM on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:10am.and I agree, I don't see how anonymously calling someone a 'w-h-o-r-e' reflects free speech. I think this relates back to your post on anonymity on Olyblog. If you write a letter to a newspaper, they ask for your contact information and call or email to confirm that you are who you say you are. Although the letters in the Olympian can make my head hurt, they are not nearly as offensive as the hate spewing crap that people post in the online comments section where there is little to no moderation.
When Rick was on KUOW there was a discussion about comments among the bloggers and what seemed to keep things civil was the lack of total anonymity (having a login that you are accountable to) and the fact that participants on the neighborhood blogs often knew each other (if I'm remembering that discussion correctly.) Personally, I think the environment of Olyblog has improved quite a bit in the last few months.
I think things are better, too.
Submitted by Rick on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:18am.And it is an interesting balance to maintain. I think there may be some other mechanisms for maintaining (and increasing) accountability while still allowing anonymity. Have some sort of intake process where there is a real person involved, a short probationary period, and agreeing to the social contract all signal that people here care about communication.
Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Jacob Burckhardt
There is far less opposition to ideas
Submitted by Norm on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:49am.In my case I just don't feel the need to be berated for disagreeing with someone.
Interesting Thought.
Submitted by einmaleins on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:51am.I was thinking along the same lines.
When I first started reading the comments in the Olympian I was shocked. Then I started reading comments in other "more respected" papers like the Seattle PI and the NYTimes and realized that people that have time to comment on newspaper sites in general are all repesenting the same ridiculous voice.
A community conversation is alot better and Olyblog does a good job in that.
mathias
einmaleins
Not just the newspaper's fault
Submitted by Guglielmo on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 10:51am.I agree that papers like the Olympian should be more active moderators of their comment sections. But those making comments should take some of the responsiblity also. There will always be people like Band Member who make outrageous statements with the intent to antagonize other posters. Instead of responding to Band Member, other posters should ignore him.
The same is true on Olyblog. Ignoring snarky, trollish comments does wonders. Deal with them in PMs and through moderation, not comments. For these people, few things are worse than proof of thier irrelivance...they will not subject themselves to that for very long.
It's a cliche now, but "don't feed the trolls." Keep comments on topic and don't allow yourself to be sucked into a fight. Say it once and let it go. Things we all know.
Good advice
Submitted by JulieM on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 11:42am."Never attribute to malice...
Submitted by epersonae on Wed, 07/23/2008 - 3:17pm.that which can be ascribed to incompetence." :)
newspapers, as profit-seeking enterprises, want to drive up traffic to their site as much as possible.
I think that most newspapers just really don't KNOW what to do with commenting on individual articles, or with the internet in general. It's a different mental model of the world, which can be painful to adjust to. I have a great deal of sympathy for them. (Some of the multimedia experiments ongoing at the WaPo and the NYT are amazing, though.)
And in the case of the Olympian in particular, I don't think high page traffic on their comments does them any good, since those aren't pages that carry advertising. Nor, honestly, do I think the vast majority of people who read the paper, even online, read the comments. It is, at the moment, a rough bolt-on to their normal operations.
And ugh, Gawker. (But do go read the comments: hi-larious.)