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Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 10:27am.

http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/272105.html

Sorry, Ms. Kilgore, I'm not buying this one.

You need to decide if the officer swung at your employee or not, regardless of who he is. It appears that without press credentials, the officer felt the need to swing a baton at someone.

I resent the implication that first hand testimony from community journalists is not as accurate as you claim to be. It seems as though your employee had a different story for people on the lines.

As I told another of your employees last weekend, if you truly wanted to be of help to the community, you would delete all of the comments that encourage violence towards protestors, that is published your online edition.

You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.

»

He took a swing at me

but he didn't assault me? Odd.
»

a restatement

i posted this information towards the end of the "womens blockade" thread but i think it got buried and it's worth noting.

i was standing with a group of people watching the plum and fourth blockade on the 11th (i think, i might be off on the date by a day or two) but anyway, there i was and up comes jeremy pawloski with one of the PMR organizers. he asks us if we have any comments and i, not so politely, remind the group of people i'm with about the olympians yellow, one sided track record. 

in response to that jeremy tells us in detail about how he had been struck in the leg with a baton a couple of times and how his "camera man" had taken a face full of pepper spray and how shocked they both were at the police response and finally how they were "on our side" and wanted to "get the story out there".

now i speculate two things. either A) reporters were actually hit by police and the olympian is taking it's usual line of dishonesty and outright crap reporting or... B) olympian reporters made the whole thing up to gain the trust of protesters. to what end, i don't know. why gain thier trust if you're not going to print what they say? it confuses me.

all i know is that jeremy pawloski, who i have met before, came up to my group of friends to share a story about being struck by the police with a baton but i never actually saw it happen. i guess it makes sense, you can't take anything anyone at the olympian says at face value.
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Kilgore's account is screwy

She talked about Tony's experience getting pepper sprayed at WTO. I spoke with him several times after he got sprayed. This was definately a first because people had to tell him what to do. He didn't take a full-in-the face shot, but was subjected to a conciderable secondary dose and not just the noxious lingering cloud. Yes, Tony was at WTO (he talked about how hard it was to shoot through a gas mask), he didn't get the treatment he got in Olympia. Tony Overman, got sprayed because he was standing in the midst of other people who were standing in the midst of other people who were getting sprayed. Doesn't change the fact that he got sprayed.
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Thanks all for your input

I'm reminded of the spin job done editorially when The Olympian tried to castigate Dan Kimball because his son was hired as a County Sheriff.  When they couldn't make any impropriety stick, they came out editorially and accused him of bad parenting to allow his child to make such a decision - as if a man old enough to be a sheriff can't make decisions for himself.  Why not just say "we were wrong"?

Ms. Kilgore and I had a few words back and forth in email on that one.

I hate to suggest this, but in my newspaper experience, I've seen police departments "black out" the media because they were pissed at something that had been written.  I'm not saying that I have any proof that something like this took place, and I pray that it didn't.  I just don't understand the spin job being done here.

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This is completely up to him

This is completely up to him Larry. If he felt assaulted, he was assaulted, if not then he wasn't. This is being made out to be more than it is imo. If he, and the cameraman, were in the fray they knew what the score was and what might happen. IF he felt he was treated unfairly he needs to come forth, but that is his decision, not his editors, and not yours.
»

It's not about whether or not he felt unfairly treated

it is about the Olympian's effort to characterize the events as "okay." That's not their job off of the editorial page. They should simply report that Overman recieved a dose of pepper spray, though not directly and another staffer was struck while officers were clearing the street. That's what happened. It doesn't matter if the staffer's know the score or not.
»

Do we know though?

My point with the felt threatened thing is the term "assault".

Whether or not he was struck, or shot is up to them to share. If they told protestors one story (I have no doubt they did) and told their editor another, it is up to them to decide which account is true, not you, not a protestor, not the editor, and not Larry.

Wasn't the piece an editorial anyway? If it was then whomever wrote it can leave whatever opinion they desire, ok or otherwise.

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The piece was called

"What really happened."
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Yes

because local blogs, such as this one, had a completely different story going on. If "what really happend." is not true, it is up to those staff to not let their publisher push them around, and tell the truth. Not us.
»

Dont count on it

The days of taking on the publisher on the issue of truth are long gone, Norm.  Those days left with the lack of competition in the market and corporate media controlling the press.

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Oh no no no

People who witnessed events have every right to call the publisher on it.
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Did anyone actually witness

Did anyone actually witness what happend with these reporters though, or are they going off of the story that the reporters gave down there?
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Sorry, Norm

Assault is assault.

Ask a domestic violence victim (unfortunately many recant because of fear). 

My concern in the "story" is that somehow, a police officer can make this "mistake in identity".  What makes you or I different from the reporter, other than press credentials?  If I'm in an area, within my legal rights and I happen upon a situation beyond my control, I'm not going to take kindly to a police officer swinging at me, just because I'm not with the local newspaper.

Anytime that a police officer can swing a baton at a citizen that has not attacked of provoked him IS my concern.  If his employer wants to minimize that, they are welcome.  I'm appalled at the thought.

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Anytime you have a crowd of

Anytime you have a crowd of unruly folks cops will do what they feel is necessary (them, not me) to maintain law and order. If someone is hanging out within said crowd then there is a good chance they may meet harms way. If someone is robbing a bank, and you as the cameraman jump in front of the bank robber just as the cops are showing up, do you think you won't get caught in the crossfire? I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned, but it's a fairly obvious equation. The same holds true for: protest + police = pepper spray. If you are down there, and not protesting, you will probably still get some pepper spray your way.

»

First of all

I'm not one of the "anti-cops" guys.  I consider Dan Kimball and other officers I know to be friends, if not at least associates.  This is not an attack on the police.

That being said, I'm still concerned that a reporter, with press credentials flying, can become available to an area that others are being forced from.

Let's turn the tables a slightly different angle.  At the Tacoma protests, there was a "rule" about not allowing backpacks, due to the possibility of hiding a weapon of some sort.  Yet, according to our laws, someone with a conceal weapons permit had every legal right in the world to carry their weapon to that protest, in a backpack or otherwise.  You see, we now have a two sided system.

I'm equating this on the other issue.  If you're a reporter, you can be there, but if you are civily protesting, you can't?  Something doesn't add up.

I think The Olympian adds to the confusion with one story to a group of protestors and then a public recant and a new story in their editorial.

 

»

Personally

I don't think anyone should have a firearm down there. I really don't think the cops (at least who are in the thick of it) should have a firearm. Most officers are shot when their own firearm is taken from them, and no security holster is undefeatable. Just like how I would never bring my child with me down to a protest, I have never taken my firearm, even as an observer.

I'm not sure I get what you are saying in the last half of your post. Do you not think reporters should be allowed in certain places that the rest of the public should? Or that protestors should be allowed anywhere a reporter can be?

Maybe the Olympian is trying to be loyal to OPD. Maybe the reporter "fabricated" his story at the scene to sound a little more important. You are a fisherman Larry, you know how that goes. I really think it is up to them to tell their story though. If they agreed to this Olympian editorial, then I feel that this is their story. If not they need to come out with the truth.

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Larry ~ Hmm...

I remember you bringing this topic up on the comments section. Wasn't that right about the time you got banned? ;-)
»

Shortly after

A few days after I was banned, The Olympian ran the Kimball story.  I had already sent a letter to the editor that month supporting Proposition 1, so, I couldn't do that.  Thus I sent an email to Vickie Kilgore.

»

Yeah. I Learned The Hard Way

that that woman is stubborn, hard headed and lives for the last word and retaliation!
»

It was shortly there after

that the sponsorship was pulled.  I'm a nice guy.  I'll call it a coinsidence.

»

I'll Call It

very sad.
»

Dude

they were surrounded by people. Plenty of folks saw what happened. I saw Overman getting sprayed and he talked to me about this unique experience. Kilgore painted it like he was an old war horse and it's happened to him before. If she lies about that, then I wonder about her objectivity. That's not a problem in the editorial pages, but it is with the news.
»

I didn't know anyone saw first hand

Only that someone actually saw protestors threaten the one. Thanks for clearing that up for me, I'll step back now and let you folks duke it out. It's too bad they don't step forward, I thought journalists were all about the truth?
»

I could only wish, Norm

I have not looked over my shoulder since the day I accepted the offer from my agency.  Three times during the three years prior, I had interviewed and considered jobs with newspapers.  One I turned down, one turned me down and another couldn't make a decision, but along came BBBS and I know I'm happier doing what I do now.

As a kid at the Tacoma News Tribune, I had the honor of knowing many fantastic journalists that knew the game.  They were confident in their skills and their job security (unions, in those days), that they could tell the truth, regardless of company line.  Those days are gone.

A classic story from those days was a reporter for the Trib was a know alcoholic, that somehow, got his job done.  The paper ran a Sunday feature on alcoholism in the workplace, telling employers to identify and help these people and ...WHAMMO....fired their employee about two weeks later.  The Guild stepped in a grieved.  End result - he got his job back, got sober and went back to being the productive employee he had always been.

It's a game of management by fear now.  I have many friends that have left the business in the past couple of years because of the management techniques.  One of these friends was heavily recruited out of retirement, only to throw in the towel after less than two years.  This guy is only 58.  Another speciality media picked him up.

»

Just because..

people may not want to believe it doesn't make it not true. The only portion of this that I saw was people being very aggressive towards a reporter. He was walking across the street after snapping a photo and was sourrounded by a number of people who actually grabbed at his equipment a few times. I don't know if it was the incident described but the police arrived shortly after that and these young men and one woman scattered. If we were just to admit that maybe a lot of people downtown last week were not acting properly or in the "spirit" of "peaceful protest" we could move on. Myself being a casual observer was asked more than one time by people "what the fuck are you doing here?", "you a fucking pig?", "what are you looking at?", and the best one "Are you in the Coast Guard or do you just look like it?". These were not the angels of peace that have been described on this blog, intent was not pure, motivation was not for things to go smoothly. Intentional aggressiveness towards the casual observer and officers was commonplace. It seemed to get worse after the first couple of nights and then as the week started it got better.
»

There is no question....

some people behaved inappropriately.

Tell me a public event where that doesn't happen.  We are in a culture where fist fights break out at kids ball games between the parents, but that doesn't make all parents bad.

As was posted on Olyblog, it seems many people didn't enjoy having their picture taken.  Gug has the evidence.

»

We have to be honest however

We have to be honest however that as far as public events go this was a tad bit more tension and violence filled.
»

Sure Wilson

How about the 'celebration' of Boston's World Series win?

On and on, et al, in terms of sports team celebrations.

Then there is Mardi Gras and the Celebration at Pioneer Square.

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After more thought

We do not live in a culture where things like this are the norm. Yes, fights break out at kids games. When they do they are on the news, does not happen often. I go to 10 NFL football games a year, 68,000 people, most of whom have been drinking, jacked up football fans, you can't get much more aggressive than that. I may go an entire season without seeing a fight in the stands or the parking lot. All that being considered there are fights at every game. The stadium basically becomes a good sized city for the day. I felt safer amongst 68,000 screaming people than I did in my own downtown amongst a few hundred "peaceful" protesters. Violence like this is not normal and should not be accepted as such.
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Ok, here is what I am

Ok, here is what I am hearing. It is ok to excuse awful and unlawful behavior because other people do it. Or if you agree politically with someone you should go to the mat defending what is obviously a problem within the "peace" movement. I am sure what I am going to get in response from someone is a long list of past stupid behavior by groups of people that somehow excuses the stupid behavior of people in our midst. My point is that I saw a large group of people in our town acting as if there opinions were more important than others by destroying property, and acting aggressively towards other citizens. These debates would not be nessecary if we stopped making excuses for people like this and let them know that in Olympia this is not acceptable behavior. I know if people that did not agree with our local activist community acted like this the blog would be on fire about what savages they were. Let's help are town by making sure these things do not happen in the future.
»

I think

it is very important that we recognize that a small group of people destroyed property or acted aggressively, not a large group of people.
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I Think It's Important To Recognize

everybody's definition of small varies.  So does the definition of large.  I don't think there's any official number of how many people destroyed property or acted aggressively but the photos and video I saw, because it's all I have to go on since I wasn't there, showed a large number of people helping to destroy property and acting aggressively.  I define large as more than 10 people where as you might define it as 20+.  It's all a matter of interpretation.

I'm not including the number of people arrested because I know not all of them were destroying property or acting aggressively. 

I think there's a large scope of what one would define as acting aggressively too.  Some might think yelling "F You Pigs" as every day language, I think it's a call of aggression and would feel like somebody was acting aggressively towards me if they shouted that at me as well.

»

Onry

I cut you some slack. What about you?
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Um, I'm Having Difficulties

wading through all the new posts! Refresh my memory! LOL!
»

Oh bother

its not worth rehashing.
»

Seriously!

It's not that we can't sit down & share some crow together! I'm always the first to admit when I'm wrong! Point out what I'm missing! I just get so frustrated & feeling overwhelmed by all the new posts because I miss so many of them!

I've tried all the suggestions offered and so far the Control F thing works well but I hit Next so quickly to wade through all the variances of the word new that I miss a thing or 2!

»

Verified facts

I myself was there in the wake of the "assault call" that Tony had to make (or felt he had to make) in the first case (the one Vicki writes of, where he felt threatened by the crowd.) He told me shortly afterward that he felt shocked that "his own people would turn on him" - meaning local Olympians. He questioned whether we were all local.

He did calm down in a bit, and he got back to work. Work which is excellent, by the way - and award winning unless I misremember.

Then, later, one of my observers related the story of how they treated Tony for his pepper spray exposure Saturday. How Tony kept coming back to have a bit more paste applied to his face to prevent the burning sensation. He is depicted in photos we have from two separate photographers getting a ten foot exposure to direct spray. That's not Q-tips in the eyes, but it was damaging enough to make him desire local street medic assistance. He certainly did not go to the hospital, but he was treated by our folks according to three reliable sources.

But we always knew the Daily Zero was a corporatist Fishwrapper anyway, so what is the surprise?

»

I was there Saturday

and witnessed what Drew accurately discribes.
»

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