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Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 10:27am.
http://www.theolympian.com/news/story/272105.html Sorry, Ms. Kilgore, I'm not buying this one. You need to decide if the officer swung at your employee or not, regardless of who he is. It appears that without press credentials, the officer felt the need to swing a baton at someone. I resent the implication that first hand testimony from community journalists is not as accurate as you claim to be. It seems as though your employee had a different story for people on the lines. As I told another of your employees last weekend, if you truly wanted to be of help to the community, you would delete all of the comments that encourage violence towards protestors, that is published your online edition. You're either part of the problem or part of the solution.
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He took a swing at me
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 10:37am.a restatement
Submitted by a.future.with.n... on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 10:47am.Kilgore's account is screwy
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:09am.Thanks all for your input
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:22am.I'm reminded of the spin job done editorially when The Olympian tried to castigate Dan Kimball because his son was hired as a County Sheriff. When they couldn't make any impropriety stick, they came out editorially and accused him of bad parenting to allow his child to make such a decision - as if a man old enough to be a sheriff can't make decisions for himself. Why not just say "we were wrong"?
Ms. Kilgore and I had a few words back and forth in email on that one.
I hate to suggest this, but in my newspaper experience, I've seen police departments "black out" the media because they were pissed at something that had been written. I'm not saying that I have any proof that something like this took place, and I pray that it didn't. I just don't understand the spin job being done here.
This is completely up to him
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:48am.It's not about whether or not he felt unfairly treated
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:57am.Do we know though?
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 12:05pm.My point with the felt threatened thing is the term "assault".
Whether or not he was struck, or shot is up to them to share. If they told protestors one story (I have no doubt they did) and told their editor another, it is up to them to decide which account is true, not you, not a protestor, not the editor, and not Larry.
Wasn't the piece an editorial anyway? If it was then whomever wrote it can leave whatever opinion they desire, ok or otherwise.
The piece was called
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 12:09pm.Yes
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 12:47pm.Dont count on it
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:11pm.The days of taking on the publisher on the issue of truth are long gone, Norm. Those days left with the lack of competition in the market and corporate media controlling the press.
Oh no no no
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:17pm.Did anyone actually witness
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:18pm.Sorry, Norm
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 12:10pm.Assault is assault.
Ask a domestic violence victim (unfortunately many recant because of fear).
My concern in the "story" is that somehow, a police officer can make this "mistake in identity". What makes you or I different from the reporter, other than press credentials? If I'm in an area, within my legal rights and I happen upon a situation beyond my control, I'm not going to take kindly to a police officer swinging at me, just because I'm not with the local newspaper.
Anytime that a police officer can swing a baton at a citizen that has not attacked of provoked him IS my concern. If his employer wants to minimize that, they are welcome. I'm appalled at the thought.
Anytime you have a crowd of
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 12:45pm.Anytime you have a crowd of unruly folks cops will do what they feel is necessary (them, not me) to maintain law and order. If someone is hanging out within said crowd then there is a good chance they may meet harms way. If someone is robbing a bank, and you as the cameraman jump in front of the bank robber just as the cops are showing up, do you think you won't get caught in the crossfire? I'm not saying you shouldn't be concerned, but it's a fairly obvious equation. The same holds true for: protest + police = pepper spray. If you are down there, and not protesting, you will probably still get some pepper spray your way.
First of all
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:08pm.I'm not one of the "anti-cops" guys. I consider Dan Kimball and other officers I know to be friends, if not at least associates. This is not an attack on the police.
That being said, I'm still concerned that a reporter, with press credentials flying, can become available to an area that others are being forced from.
Let's turn the tables a slightly different angle. At the Tacoma protests, there was a "rule" about not allowing backpacks, due to the possibility of hiding a weapon of some sort. Yet, according to our laws, someone with a conceal weapons permit had every legal right in the world to carry their weapon to that protest, in a backpack or otherwise. You see, we now have a two sided system.
I'm equating this on the other issue. If you're a reporter, you can be there, but if you are civily protesting, you can't? Something doesn't add up.
I think The Olympian adds to the confusion with one story to a group of protestors and then a public recant and a new story in their editorial.
Personally
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:17pm.I don't think anyone should have a firearm down there. I really don't think the cops (at least who are in the thick of it) should have a firearm. Most officers are shot when their own firearm is taken from them, and no security holster is undefeatable. Just like how I would never bring my child with me down to a protest, I have never taken my firearm, even as an observer.
I'm not sure I get what you are saying in the last half of your post. Do you not think reporters should be allowed in certain places that the rest of the public should? Or that protestors should be allowed anywhere a reporter can be?
Maybe the Olympian is trying to be loyal to OPD. Maybe the reporter "fabricated" his story at the scene to sound a little more important. You are a fisherman Larry, you know how that goes. I really think it is up to them to tell their story though. If they agreed to this Olympian editorial, then I feel that this is their story. If not they need to come out with the truth.
Larry ~ Hmm...
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:19pm.Shortly after
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:29pm.A few days after I was banned, The Olympian ran the Kimball story. I had already sent a letter to the editor that month supporting Proposition 1, so, I couldn't do that. Thus I sent an email to Vickie Kilgore.
Yeah. I Learned The Hard Way
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:33pm.It was shortly there after
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:36pm.that the sponsorship was pulled. I'm a nice guy. I'll call it a coinsidence.
I'll Call It
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:40pm.Dude
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:22pm.I didn't know anyone saw first hand
Submitted by Norm on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:43pm.I could only wish, Norm
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 1:54pm.I have not looked over my shoulder since the day I accepted the offer from my agency. Three times during the three years prior, I had interviewed and considered jobs with newspapers. One I turned down, one turned me down and another couldn't make a decision, but along came BBBS and I know I'm happier doing what I do now.
As a kid at the Tacoma News Tribune, I had the honor of knowing many fantastic journalists that knew the game. They were confident in their skills and their job security (unions, in those days), that they could tell the truth, regardless of company line. Those days are gone.
A classic story from those days was a reporter for the Trib was a know alcoholic, that somehow, got his job done. The paper ran a Sunday feature on alcoholism in the workplace, telling employers to identify and help these people and ...WHAMMO....fired their employee about two weeks later. The Guild stepped in a grieved. End result - he got his job back, got sober and went back to being the productive employee he had always been.
It's a game of management by fear now. I have many friends that have left the business in the past couple of years because of the management techniques. One of these friends was heavily recruited out of retirement, only to throw in the towel after less than two years. This guy is only 58. Another speciality media picked him up.
Just because..
Submitted by wilson on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:42pm.There is no question....
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 4:56pm.some people behaved inappropriately.
Tell me a public event where that doesn't happen. We are in a culture where fist fights break out at kids ball games between the parents, but that doesn't make all parents bad.
As was posted on Olyblog, it seems many people didn't enjoy having their picture taken. Gug has the evidence.
We have to be honest however
Submitted by wilson on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 5:05pm.Sure Wilson
Submitted by Anonymously Larry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 5:20pm.How about the 'celebration' of Boston's World Series win?
On and on, et al, in terms of sports team celebrations.
Then there is Mardi Gras and the Celebration at Pioneer Square.
After more thought
Submitted by wilson on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 5:26pm.Ok, here is what I am
Submitted by wilson on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 6:13pm.I think
Submitted by Rob Richards on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 6:21pm.I Think It's Important To Recognize
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 6:29pm.everybody's definition of small varies. So does the definition of large. I don't think there's any official number of how many people destroyed property or acted aggressively but the photos and video I saw, because it's all I have to go on since I wasn't there, showed a large number of people helping to destroy property and acting aggressively. I define large as more than 10 people where as you might define it as 20+. It's all a matter of interpretation.
I'm not including the number of people arrested because I know not all of them were destroying property or acting aggressively.
I think there's a large scope of what one would define as acting aggressively too. Some might think yelling "F You Pigs" as every day language, I think it's a call of aggression and would feel like somebody was acting aggressively towards me if they shouted that at me as well.
Onry
Submitted by Guglielmo on Fri, 11/16/2007 - 11:35pm.Um, I'm Having Difficulties
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 1:18pm.Oh bother
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 1:27pm.Seriously!
Submitted by JstPlnOnry on Sat, 11/17/2007 - 1:32pm.It's not that we can't sit down & share some crow together! I'm always the first to admit when I'm wrong! Point out what I'm missing! I just get so frustrated & feeling overwhelmed by all the new posts because I miss so many of them!
I've tried all the suggestions offered and so far the Control F thing works well but I hit Next so quickly to wade through all the variances of the word new that I miss a thing or 2!
Verified facts
Submitted by DrewHendricks on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 1:25am.He did calm down in a bit, and he got back to work. Work which is excellent, by the way - and award winning unless I misremember.
Then, later, one of my observers related the story of how they treated Tony for his pepper spray exposure Saturday. How Tony kept coming back to have a bit more paste applied to his face to prevent the burning sensation. He is depicted in photos we have from two separate photographers getting a ten foot exposure to direct spray. That's not Q-tips in the eyes, but it was damaging enough to make him desire local street medic assistance. He certainly did not go to the hospital, but he was treated by our folks according to three reliable sources.
But we always knew the Daily Zero was a corporatist Fishwrapper anyway, so what is the surprise?
I was there Saturday
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sun, 11/18/2007 - 8:42am.