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Know Olympia?

Submitted by einmaleins on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:03pm.

I'm relatively new to town and have seen a good deal of graffiti and heard and read alot about the different approaches locals take on that issue.

So, my question is, what is the right response in that situation:

• Should I take offense, be angry that someone smeared stuff on my window, that I now need to clean-up?

• Is it art and I should feel honored that someone choose my store window for their self-expression?

What I did learn is that being angry and upset is usally seen as a lack of character and open-mindedness, since the place I pour my heart and money into supposally doesn't belong to me but to the people with markers and spray-cans.

So, enlighten me, invite me into your worldview. Perhaps I can learn something or even better, perhaps I could get to know the person responsible for it, so I could buy him a cup of coffee.

mathias

einmaleins

einmaleins's blog
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well...

Submitted by enpen on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:10pm.

I'd say you have every right to be pissed off and angry and being so has little to do with your open-mindedness and more to do with how much you value your time, space and efforts.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

I'd say somebody vandalized your establishment

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:22pm.

The notion of unauthorized graffiti as art has always confused me. It is not art, it is property destruction. Of course some don't care for private property. Clean it up, and if you catch the wankers who did it, sic the cops on 'em.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

?

Submitted by enpen on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:36pm.

The notion of unauthorized graffiti as art has always confused me. It is not art, it is property destruction.

Things can be both vandalism and art. There's quite a bit of "vandalism" in many modern art museum collections these days.

The police as solution is part of the problem as it only reinforces the cycle in place. I would recommend thinking outside of the box.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

If it

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:43pm.

Destroys or damages private property, no matter how "artisitic" in the eyes of some viewers, it is an act that needs to be dealt with. This is usually done by identifiying the perpetrator and charging them with an unlawful act.

How would you suggest dealing with people breaking the law? The police are not the overall solution, but can lead to exacting restitution from the criminals involved.

How would you propose an end to this "cycle".

Remember, only the property owner has the right to determine if they want "art" on their building. If some splinter elements who think their "art" or "message" overrides the right of another individual it becomes an illegal act.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

hmmm

Submitted by enpen on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:54pm.

How would you propose an end to this "cycle".

I've answered this a number of times on OlyBlog, please feel free find them as I don't have the time to regurgitate it again.

Remember, only the property owner has the right to determine if they want "art" on their building. If some splinter elements who think their "art" or "message" overrides the right of another individual it becomes an illegal act.

And part of being a property owner is accepting the negatives that go along with the positives. Mold grows where you don't want it to, windows break, etc., etc., etc. This is not a controllable phenomenon like your solution suggests, rather this is a wave only growing in intensity. Spending your energy fighting it instead of trying to figure out how to work with it is a quick road to burn out.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

Well

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:56pm.

I for one am not the type to advocate giving in to a wave of petty crime and vandalism.

This is a sure sign of the lack of respect people in America have.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

Yes Steve. It is illegal. We all know that.

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:59pm.

And one certainly has the right in our society to take legal measures to protect their property. Let's agree that the legal alternative is always on the table. Always. Now given that, perhaps there is room to, as empen's box metaphor suggests, look somewhere other than on that table. You don't have to, but is see no reason to limit the options.

Your right

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 2:07pm.

We could try and get society to respect things that do not belong to them. But that would probably get shot down as "stifling to a free spirit" or some such malarky.

Or we could give in. That's always an unsightly option.

Or we could find out what drives these criminals to destroy property. I've got a few ideas. Once identified we could begin a cultural attempt to lessen their impact.

Or why the hell should we give in to these people?

I just read up on graffiti in "Recipes for Disaster" an anarchists cookbook, and it seems within certain mindsets grafitti is such a given that they only stop to consider the impact of a message, not the damage it does.

It all boils down to respect for private property, or the lack thereof.

I don't have anything else to ad to this disucssion, what are your solutions?

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

You corral yourself with a collection of dichotomies

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 2:19pm.

like fighting back or giving in. Back in the day there were gangs of unemployed knights roaming the European countryside. Bad thing. Do we fight back or give in? No, the higher ups decided to have a Crusade instead.

And that worked out well

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 2:26pm.

Didn't it?

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

Let us not argue about the efficacy of the Crusades

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 3:03pm.

It was just a metaphor for alternatives to fighting vs. giving in. Back to Mathias's window and how he might deal with it.

A sign perhaps

Submitted by security_six on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 3:20pm.

"I am a hardworking local businessman and your tagging costs me money I better spent elsewhwere in the community." Barring that, I'll sit ouside with my mosin nagant with fixed bayonet and chase 'em off. :-p

Try the nice please dont' f- with approach perhaps?

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

Whether unautherized graffiti are art or not

Submitted by Guglielmo on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:39pm.

is entirely subjective. I hope we don't get into that unending argument again. That said, as the person using and keeping up that property it is quite understandable that you would be upset about it. I don't blame you. And I don't think it says anything about your capacity for openmindedness. If the "art" is on your window, perhaps you can frame it from the inside for a few days just for fun. The humor might help mitigate the anger. Anyway, sorry you got tagged.

Tschüss

I'd pass on the emotion

Submitted by Laurian on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 1:47pm.

and seek Justice. In that vein I'd send a copy of the picture above to the ODA, the PBIA and the Oly cops. Document the damage and the cost of clean-up for use in prosecuting the perp in the off chance he/she is apprehended. Other than that, I'd say move on.

The preceding is not to diminish the power of righteous anger. One of my frustrations with Olympia specifically and the larger world in general is fear of passion of which anger is a part. I grew up angry, (who hasn't) but at 45 I've got a better handle on when to use my rage and when to curb it. (No, really, I do.) I wish more people would express their rage at the injustices of the world, non-violently of course, but more over I wish those uncomfortable with passion would grow a spine.

?

Submitted by Rob Richards on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 2:03pm.

Given that you are a downtown business, and assuming that you pay your assessment, I also assume you are member in good standing of the PBIA. Out of the PBIA agreement came a Graffiti Abatement Program. Perhaps instead of paying out of pocket for the clean up, you should contact whoever administers that program. As a member of the PBIA, I would think you would get that taken care of with no charge, membership has it's privileges.

Appropriate Response

Submitted by Robert Whitlock on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 2:12pm.

I think that your response was the right one. It wouldn't be helpful to get angry. You expressed displeasure. Perhaps you could also write about how it made you feel to find writing on your shop windows.

Graffiti and vandalism are tough issues. What's the difference between them? Is one art and the other not? How does one define when it is art and not? It can be a fine line.

I think it's pretty clear that most people (probably to include those who did the tagging) think that defacing shop windows crosses the line.

What would be really awesome would be if you could sit down and actually meet with whomever did it, come to some understanding. That would be an interesting meeting. It would require some courage, and maybe an agreement that you wouldn't turn him/her over the police. Might be worth the effort though.

That sucks. Need any help

Submitted by OperaGirl on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 2:23pm.

That sucks. Need any help window washing? I wouldn't feel bad if you feel pissed off. It doesn't mean you have a closed mind, it just means that someone violated your space and it bothers you.

Music is the mediator between the spiritual and the sensual life. ~Ludwig van Beethoven

Thanks for the support.

Submitted by einmaleins on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 3:37pm.

Everyone,

Thank you all so much for all your kind words, your encouragment and your support.

This is truely amazing and a great example of real community.

Yes, I already contacted the ODA and hope they will be able to clean this up as fast as the last ones.

For me, real community is priceless.

No annual dues to an organization will subsitute the emotional support and consolitation that communities of people can offer.

I wish we as downtown business wouldn't need a "green machine" to clean our street and a "graffiti removal" manager to keep us excited of creating community in this town.

This is not utopia, the more we open ourselves up and share each others lives the more we understand and embrace each other.

As I'm doing business in downtown and trying feed a growing family off of it, I'm also very much invested in this community and want to raise my family here. I want my son be able to walk to the toystore by himself and take the bike to get some ice cream.

If we all do our part, we can make this happen.

I believe!

mathias

einmaleins

I can see your rainbow from the westside

Submitted by Katherine on Mon, 06/16/2008 - 3:39pm.

Thank you mathias.

I just took the gold from the pot that was at the end of your ra

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 7:35am.

from the pot that was at the end of your rainbow that Katherine could see from the Westside. You really didn't need it anyhow,and I will be down later to tag your window as well. Have a nice day. How's that for sugar coating vandalism Jason?

?

Submitted by enpen on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 8:33am.

You seem to confuse my refusal to create a hard distinction between all vandalism and all art with sugar coating. Or maybe I'm confusing the fight against graffiti with the same failed strategy behind the drug war. Either way, nobody is saying this is anything other than lame for mathias.

einmaleins is kitty-corner to the bus depot. There are a lot of people from out of town stopping by a three block radius of Olympia for 30-50 minutes every day. Proximity and lack of community ties creates and maintains the target. Barring spending an amazing amount of police resources on having somebody camp out right there, the reality is that this will keep happening as long as the status quo is maintained. I firmly believe the only way to combat unwanted graffiti is to accept its place in modern society and try to figure out how to work with it.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

You raise some interesting points

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 9:11am.

How do you work with a group of people who have shown they have no regard for property rights?

Graffiti has been around as long as Og could write "Gruk smells like mammoth butt" on the wall of the cave. It has only been recently that wall scribblings have been considered art.

You can't legalize graffiti per se, because it would trample the rights of property owners.

I am more interested in ensuring that vandalism is kept to a minimum, and the way to do that is for people to start learning respect for other people's stuff. Some of the study I've done on graffiti indicates the vandals find it morally acceptable to destroy property in the name of putting a message out.

There are free wall opportunities for people who want to make real art.

How do you reach out to a destructive culture and enforce or encourage the notion that scribbling on other people's walls and windows is wrong?

I think first you have to get the strange notion out of their heads that their "art" or "tags" are more important that the rights of the person they are subjecting it on.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

Good luck with that.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 9:32am.

I think you're going about it the wrong way. You're taking something someone loves, telling them it's morally wrong, and asking them to change their mind about it. It would be like someone trying to get the "strange notion" out of your head that guns are cool. They wouldn't get very far would they? About as far as you'd get with a tagger, probably.

There are better more inclusive solutions to these issues and they start with sitting down and having a conversation between all parties involved.

This bucket has holes

Submitted by Ehver Green on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 9:41am.

You're comparing a legal act (owning a gun) with an illegal act (vandalism).

For what it's worth, vandalism does not equal graffiti and I highly doubt those responsible for defacing Einmaleins are interested in sitting down to work out their differences. True artists wouldn't stoop to this level.

No obligation to be inclusive when the conversation starts with a crime.

Show me

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 9:42am.

Where it is legally protected to deface property?

I'm talking about trying to figure out why the heck some people think it is acceptable to deface property without permission? Once that is established, then how do you get those same vandals to stop doing it? If police force and public scorn isn't enough, how do you bring these people around to the strange and unusual notion that if it isn't their property don't deface it? I'm open for suggestions. What I do is carefully protected by the state constitution, state law, and the courts. What taggers do is not. Just the opposite in fact.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

You're missing my point.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:03am.

Which is:
Trying to convince someone that something they do or believe is morally wrong is a nearly impossible task.

I'm not talking about legality here, that's a different conversation. You want it to stop the easy way, let's put cops on every corner. The harder but more fulfilling and lasting way is to figure out who is doing it and why and what will get them to stop. Right now we don't know why they do it, and we bad mouth them and call them names. Is that supposed to get them to stop?

Then graffiti

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:10am.

Will continue. I won't call these people artists, because when they use private property for their canvas it becomes a crime. They are vandals. So if vandals won't be convinced that something is morally wrong, and they already don't give a rip about the legality of their crime, then there is no hope. Do you negoiate with them? How much ground do you give up?

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

This conversation

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:19am.

is as pointless as saying to someone, "Hey you, scumbag, quit being a scumbag!"

I give up. You win. Congratulations.

That brand of thinking is one answer to

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:40am.

the question "What's the Matter with Kansas?" Basically it goes like this: if peole just behaved better (like in the good ol' days) then we wouldn't be in the shape we're in today. Our problems are the consequences of the moral failings of others.

Somebody needs to watch No Country For Old Men

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:46am.

I got through saying

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:49am.

Graffitti has been around since Og started tagging Thurg's cave.

And in the case of vandalism, I would say that yes the problem with illegal graffiti is from the moral failings of others.

It's funny, someone shoots a hole in a shop window and folks scream for "gun control." Somone rattle cans a shop window, and the same political spectrum wants "understanding" for the person who violated the window. Go figger.

So if the problem with graffiti isn't through the moral failings of the people commiting the act what is the problem?

Should we blame the victim for having such an attractive blank slate?

Should we blame the evil corperations for creating an oppresive world where people feel forced to exercise their "suppresed talent"?

Should we blame the evil government for "keeping people down"?

Just who should be blame for that problem?

And I think the "good old days" sucked just as bad. There was still crime, it was socially accetpable for a man to beat his partner and children, racism was tolerated and even enforced with unconstitutional laws, pollution was rampant, etc... And yes there was graffiti then too.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

You're having this conversation with me.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 11:08am.

When have you ever heard me, personally, call for more gun control? I don't get how I get lumped into your vision of "what liberals are". I think I make it commonly known that I'm pretty far left of liberal, at least liberal in the Democratic Party sense of the word, which is generally pretty centrist anymore. Those are your "gun grabbers", not me.

I'm really just advocating community problem solving and accountability. If you owned a business would you want to piss off the "vandals", or befriend them?

I wasn't lumping you per se into this

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 11:19am.

Sorry if it came out that way.

If I owned a business (and I'm real scary dang close to mebbe doing that) I would want to take steps to make sure the vandals knew I was not a good target.

Now if I had a politically charged business like a car lot, or a gunshop (no I'm not opening up either one) I would probably rely on security measures.

If I had a small downtown business I would still rely on some level of security, that just makes sense. I would use whatever outreach steps I felt was needed to ensure that my business was known in the community, and that vandalism isn't tolerated.

I don't know how to keep vandals off. But I don't want to piss them off, or become buddy buddy with that element either. Vandals do not strike me as good customers.

What is your happy medium?

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

Boys... take it outside!

Submitted by einmaleins on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 11:33am.

I don't want to live in a society where I'm in the need of protecting my own with a gun.

Neither do I want to constantely clean up graffiti.

I do want conversation, connection and understanding.

Yet I don't want the hope for conversation be an excuse to never get anything done either.

So, the sun will drive away darkness, every morning new!

Let's leave it at that. it's philosophical fluff, but it works!

mathias

einmaleins

I wasn't thinking gun actually

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 11:38am.

Graffiti is not on my list of things that justify an armed presence.

I think you are onto something with your bit about the sun. This sort of thing generally happens in absence of light or people present.

A vibrant nightlife would perhaps help keep graffiti down. :-)

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

exactly

Submitted by einmaleins on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 11:44am.

That's why I started First Friday.

mathias

einmaleins

First Friday is awesome

Submitted by Logarithm on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 2:27pm.

Thank you for starting it!!!

you're welcome.

Submitted by einmaleins on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 2:32pm.

n/t

"A vibrant nightlife would perhaps help keep graffiti down."

Submitted by Guglielmo on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 12:22pm.

Exactamundo!!! That's a perfect example of an approach that doesn't require a fight or giving in. There are alternatives to "just giving in."

Whoever you are W1r3d1

Submitted by einmaleins on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 8:35am.

.... bring my some coffee by, when you come tag my window.

I'll be waiting for you.

Oh and about that pot of gold - you're welcome!

You really believe that there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow? That rainbow came straight out of my ar...! So, what does that make you?

mathias

einmaleins

the wired one

Submitted by enpen on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 9:03am.

I'm pretty sure he has more than enough coffee to share a cup with you.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

Couldn't help it!

Submitted by security_six on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:13am.

I feel this way some days at work. Too much caffiene, too little customer interaction.

"It could probably be shown by facts and figures that there is no distinctly native American criminal class except Congress." --Mark Twain

Update:

Submitted by einmaleins on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 9:41am.

Thanks to Alan and the ODA, the tag is removed and the window is clean again.

Well, sort off - now I need to actually clean the window from the drive-by dirt on State Ave. ;-)

mathias

That's funny.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:04am.

Mathias, I will come by

Submitted by w1r3d1 on Tue, 06/17/2008 - 10:18am.

Mathias, I will come by later with Coffee and a machine! The pot of gold didn't go to far. I was able to get exactly 3 gallons of gas and a Cliff bar. and if that pot of gold came out of your arse, then you are not generating enough goodness. More gold less talk........

tagging is not art

Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 3:22pm.

Plain & simple, tagging is not art, it is about ownership and geography...

...I'd just post a cam in the shop pointed at the window(s).

Where are the guard robots when you need them?

...anyways, hang in there =)

plain and what?

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 3:28pm.

That sounds like an opinion, plain and simple. If you want to try to back it up with some facts, I'll throw some modern art collections and collectors into the fray. There are tags from the 70's & 80's worth thousands of dollars.

You seem to have an incomplete picture of what "it is about."

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

word. you beat me to it.

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 3:30pm.

How much is the tag in the window?

Submitted by chad360 on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 4:03pm.

Really, if that tag was such a great example of art, then *please*, will either of you offer to buy & replace the window the next time it gets tagged so you can preserve this valuable community treasure...

...and while you are at it, please (oh please) explain to me what "it is all about" (oh word, I can't wait).

...where are all these rad tags you are talking about and how can the Oly community capitalize on them?

Why are investors not flocking to this "tag haven" for these real *art treasures*?

To me, tagging is junk, and as for the window tag, that is less than worthless.

Seriously (enpen & RR), must you be so snide to me? If what I say is my opinion, and you obviously recognize that, then what is your beef other than making sure you get your 2cents in edgewise?

So in my mind, just because something has market value does not mean it is worth anything, and for the record please don't assume I'm ignorant just because I disagree.

I think,

Submitted by Rob Richards on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 5:03pm.

I don't speak for Enpen, but the issue for me was your declarative statements regarding tagging universally. I think tagging someone's storefront window is stupid, and that people who do stuff like that are jerks. I recognize, however, and this seems to be something you don't recognize, thus the nut of our disagreement, that not ALL taggers use such inappropriate spaces as their canvas. Therefore, in my opinion, not all taggers, or graffiti artists, should be lumped in with the minority of those who do. If all exhibited the behavior you suggest, there would be a lot more windows with tags on them in town than there are now.

Furthermore, I don't think anybody on this thread defended this particular tag as being appropriate. Also, no one on this thread said that tagging (or graffiti) is art, therefore this tag is OK. I believe everybody universally expressed sympathy for Mathias here.

It seems we may be having two conversations at once here. One about this particular tag on the window at einmaleins, and another about graffiti art in general. The former is denounced, as it should be, the latter is gaining respect throughout the art community worldwide.

I put you on the defensive

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 9:52pm.

My bad.

It is about a lot of things. Mostly what it is about is what the individual doing it brings. For some people it's political, for some it's fame, for some it's a ticket to a job doing something they love instead of sloughing it doing something they hate, for some it's about escaping a shitty home, for some it's about boredom, for some it's about the process of getting better, for some it's about the art and for some it's about hating. I missed a lot of someones in there because there are a lot of individual reasons for doing it.

Why did somebody do this to Mathias' window? I don't know. Does it suck? Yes. Does that mean that graffiti isn't art? That's ridiculous.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

thanks

Submitted by chad360 on Thu, 06/19/2008 - 9:45am.

Enpen, thanks for the comment.

~'nuf said =)

I'm gonna make a real effort on the O-Blog here to not get snarky or too prickly, and I appreciate the effort both you and RR have made today and yesterday.

And thank you

Submitted by enpen on Thu, 06/19/2008 - 10:37pm.

Sometimes I'm a jerk. I'm sorry for that.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

I don't know about art but I know what is a cry for attention is

Submitted by Laurian on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 4:53pm.

Tagging start out as a hairless ape's equivalent of dogs peeing on trees. Then some other apes with more money than brains commodified it turning into art and de-fanged it in the process. Capitalism: We'll take the symbols of your rebellion and sell it back to your bosses for twice what your bosses pay you in a year. But I digress.

Yes, there are some 'tags' that rise to the level of art, tags that took time, technique and thought, tags I'd call murals, but CPDT and other slap dash tags are not art. CPDT is about territory and asserting one's existence anonymously. (Anonymously. Anyone else see the irony in that?)

There is an interesting conversation to be had on the why's of tagging but please don't confuse the issue by calling it art. The stuff that appears on the Free Wall is art. The stuff that appears on, and occasionally in my building is vandalism. And I don't like it. Not one bit. Harrumph!

but Kilroy was there!

Submitted by enpen on Wed, 06/18/2008 - 9:42pm.

"In principle, I am an anarchist. Kurt Vonnegut once said he was an agnostic who respects Jesus Christ. I am an anarchist who loves democracy." - Kenzaburo Oe

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