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Submitted by Sarah on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 10:45am.
The excellent blog Orcinus has a new post on How to Out A Sundown Town. Clear instructions are given on how to research the secret history of your town. The historical fact is that if you're a middle-class white American living in the north or west of the country, the odds are overwhelmingly good that the town you live in, right now, is a sundown town -- or was one at some point in the not-so-distant past.Anyone have Olympia stories? I found one online and my own blog post about this generated a Shelton story also.
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So
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:21pm.Should a person be ashamed of the fact they bought a house from someone who bought a house from someone who probably bought it from someone else, that may have somehow disrupted another community in the past? How about insteading of inventing and focusing on guilt, one work on living life and treating people of all races equally?
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract
Awareness is better than ignorance don't you think
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:43pm.Only if
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:45pm.One believes they are entitled. I honestly believe projects like this do more to increase the racial divide than heal it, that is why I find it so wrong.
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract
Why do you believe that?
Submitted by Guglielmo on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:50pm.How about an ilustration.
Edit: Nevermind. I don't really want to know and I don't want to hijack this thread into another debate about entitlement.
How about
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:55pm.PMing me and we can discuss it. Or wait until the next time I wander into the BroHo this week and we can talk over mixed drinks like civilized entitled white males with white collar jobs:-) ***sarcasm here people, FREAKING sarcasm!***
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract
No shame, no guilt
Submitted by Sarah on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:30pm.6, did I write that any of us should feel ashamed or guilty?
I encourage you to read the article I linked to, very worth it. Civil discourse is welcome there also, you can surely ask any questions, share opinions.
Quote from article:
I read the article
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:41pm.And in all honesty fail to see the importance of "outing" a "sundown town"
No you didn't suggest anyone should feel guilty, but I have found a lot of the time when one spends time on such topics, it either has to do with making one's self feel warm and fuzzy, trying to make up to people of other races for the sins of the past, or some perverse combination of the two. Quite frankly I wouldn't give enough of a rip about the past of my neighborhood if I lived in one. I would be more interested in the present and the future.
This is the part that got me...
"Step 3: Take it to City Hall
Armed with proof of a racial shift, and some historical hints about how it might have happened, your next stop is City Hall."
Why on earth would someone want to do this? Is this somehow going to change the past? I had a black man tell me all white people should apologize for slavery. I looked at him and said "Why?" I didn't enslave you. I don't discriminate against you. I don't engage in practices that hold your community back. What do I have to apologize for? A sense of history is important. Letting it hold you back is wrong.
Honestly, after reading this blog I came away with the feeling it is some person's idea of trying to feel good for being in what used to be a black neighborhood, or in an area that used to make every effort to keep blacks out.
Big whoop. Better call Al Sharpton and kneel down and beg his forgiveness for living in an area that used to be black. Sorry if I sound harsh, but all I can see is the sheer insanity of this whole thing.
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract
So don't do it
Submitted by Sarah on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:44pm.If you don't want to participate in something, don't participate.
I myself find great value in learning from many sources, including history.
I'm sorry Sarah
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:48pm.I should have presumed you posted this expecting only people to agree with what you posted. If you do not want dissenting comments, please say so ahead of time.
I never said I did not find value in history. I am wondering about the application of that knowledge. To me it does nothing more than emphasize the racial divide, past and present.
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract
Hey S6
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:57pm.So replying to this
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 1:00pm.And saying "Huh" is the last word too?
So how do you suggest I engage Sarah in this conversation? Or since I am on a complete opposite viewpoint of hers, should I bow out?
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract
Ignoring racism doesn't make it go away.
Submitted by Rob Richards on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 12:54pm.We certainly shouldn't inflate it and make ourselves feel guilty for things that we aren't party to, but recognizing our various privileges is important in order to combat them. I'm talking about combating them on personal level, one on one. If I, a man, enter into a gathering with a variety of people and I go in with the attitude that we're all equal and me thinking that is enough, then I'll probably let myself or others dominate over quieter voices. If I go in knowing that I might be deferred to for various reasons and keep that in the back of my head then I have the opportunity to recognize when the conversation is being dominated and empower others to speak up.
I should take a deep breath here
Submitted by security_six on Sat, 01/19/2008 - 1:22pm.This is the sort of topic that really gets my blood boiling. I sometimes have a hard time articulating what deep down inside screams at me as "WRONG!" Which in turn comes out in my posting.
That said, I stand by everything I said, I probably could have said it better. One of my hobbies is history, I believe everything has roots in the past, and the key to the present is understanding the past. But I also believe there is a fine line between understanding the lessons of the past, and going to far with them. I need to work out the thoughts I am trying to put forth here, but they are rolled up with words like "progressives" and "white guilt" and whatnot. It is always good and well to know the background of a community, but at this late date in history, there may be little or no actual value in emphasizing the negative aspects of certain things.
Perhaps I could have summed everything up this way... "Let the dead bury their own dead."
Sorry for being vicious.
"It's okay to be armed"
security_six's social contract